Illustration by David Vogin
I first got into journalism because I thought I could make a difference.
I wrote for the school newspaper and did “news” reports on a radio station a friend and I started at my high school in Springfield, Mo. I got my first professional job at age 20, while still in college, at a local radio station’s news department. Three years later, I became a news director, and 12 years after that, in 1995, I was recruited to move to Milwaukee to become news director at WTMJ, one of the largest and most successful news/talk radio stations in America.
That was where my real education occurred.
I worked for three years as news director, and then, in 1998, gained the additional title of assistant program director, a role I held until leaving the station in July 2006. From that position, I worked closely with our talk show hosts and became intimately familiar with how they appeal to listeners and shape their vision of the world. Let me tell you some of the lessons I learned.
To begin with, talk show hosts such as Charlie Sykes – one of the best in the business – are popular and powerful because they appeal to a segment of the population that feels disenfranchised and even victimized by the media. These people believe the media are predominantly staffed by and consistently reflect the views of social liberals. This view is by now so long-held and deep-rooted, it has evolved into part of virtually every conservative’s DNA.
To succeed, a talk show host must perpetuate the notion that his or her listeners are victims, and the host is the vehicle by which they can become empowered. The host frames virtually every issue in us-versus-them terms. There has to be a bad guy against whom the host will emphatically defend those loyal listeners.
This enemy can be a politician – either a Democratic officeholder or, in rare cases where no Democrat is convenient to blame, it can be a “RINO” (a “Republican In Name Only,” who is deemed not conservative enough). It can be the cold, cruel government bureaucracy. More often than not, however, the enemy is the “mainstream media” – local or national, print or broadcast.
Sometimes, it can even be their own station’s news director. One year, Charlie targeted me because I had instructed my midday news anchor to report the Wimbledon tennis results, even though the matches wouldn’t be telecast until much later in the day. Charlie gave out my phone number and e-mail address on the air. I was flooded with hate mail, nasty messages, and even one death threat from a federal law enforcement agent whom I knew to be a big Charlie fan.
In the talk radio business, this concept, which must be mastered to be successful, is called “differentiating” yourself from the rest of the media. It is a brilliant marketing tactic that has also helped Fox News Channel thrive. “We report, you decide” and “Fair and Balanced” are more than just savvy slogans. They are code words signaling that only Fox will report the news in a way conservatives see as objective and truthful.
Forget any notion, however, that radio talk shows are supposed to be fair, evenhanded discussions featuring a diversity of opinions. The Fairness Doctrine, which required this, was repealed 20 years ago. So talk shows can be, and are, all about the host’s opinions, analyses and general worldview. Programmers learned long ago that benign conversations led by hosts who present all sides of an issue don’t attract large audiences. That’s why Kathleen Dunn was forced out at WTMJ in the early ’90s and why Jim and Andee were replaced in the mid-’90s by Dr. Laura. Pointed and provocative are what win.
There is no way to win a disagreement with Charlie Sykes. Calls from listeners who disagree with him don’t get on the air if the show’s producer, who generally does the screening, fears they might make Charlie look bad. I witnessed several occasions when Sen. Russ Feingold, former Mayor John Norquist, Mayor Tom Barrett or others would call in, but wouldn’t be allowed on the air.
Opponents are far more likely to get through when the producer is confident Charlie can use the dissenting caller to reinforce his original point. Ask former Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Publisher Keith Spore, or former Police Chief Arthur Jones. How can Charlie do that? By belittling the caller’s point of view. You can always tell, however, when the antagonist has gotten the better of Charlie. That’s when he starts attacking the caller personally.
But the worst fate comes for those who ignore Charlie when he asks on the air why they did or didn’t do something, and they never respond. That leaves him free to make his point unabated, day after day. The most frequent victims of this were Journal Sentinel Editor Marty Kaiser and Managing Editor George Stanley.
Charlie knew they would rarely call or e-mail to answer his criticism, so he could both criticize decisions they had made and blast them for not having the guts to come on his show and respond. What little credibility they had among Charlie’s audience would decline by a thousand cuts. It would have been far better for them to face Charlie head on and take their lumps so he would move on to the next victim – I mean, topic.
One entire group that rarely gets on the air are the elderly callers – unless they have something extraordinary to say. Sadly, that doesn’t happen often. The theory is that old-sounding callers help produce old-skewing audiences. The target demo is 25 to 54, not 65 and older.
Talk radio, after all, is in the entertainment business. But that doesn’t mean it has no impact on public policy. Quite the contrary.
The stereotyped liberal view of the talk radio audience is that it’s a lot of angry, uneducated white men. In fact, the audience is far more diverse. Many are businesspeople, doctors, lawyers, academics, clergy, or soccer moms and dads. Talk show fans are not stupid. They will detect an obvious phony. The best hosts sincerely believe everything they say. Their passion is real. Their arguments have been carefully crafted in a manner they know will be meaningful to the audience, and that validates the views these folks were already thinking.
Yet while talk show audiences aren’t being led like lemmings to a certain conclusion, they can be carefully prodded into agreement with the Republican views of the day.
Conservative talk show hosts would receive daily talking points e-mails from the Bush White House, the Republican National Committee and, during election years, GOP campaign operations. They’re not called talking points, but that’s what they are. I know, because I received them, too. During my time at WTMJ, Charlie would generally mine the e-mails, then couch the daily message in his own words. Midday talker Jeff Wagner would be more likely to rely on them verbatim. But neither used them in their entirety, or every single day.
Charlie and Jeff would also check what other conservative talk show hosts around the country were saying. Rush Limbaugh’s Web site was checked at least once daily. Atlanta-based nationally syndicated talker Neal Boortz was another popular choice. Select conservative blogs were also perused.
A smart talk show host will, from time to time, disagree publicly with a Republican president, the Republican Party, or some conservative doctrine. (President Bush’s disastrous choice of Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court was one such example.) But these disagreements are strategically chosen to prove the host is an independent thinker, without appreciably harming the president or party. This is not to suggest that hosts don’t genuinely disagree with the conservative line at times. They do, more often than you might think. But they usually keep it to themselves.
One of the things that makes a talk show host good – especially hosts of the caliber of Sykes – is that his or her arguments seem so solid. You fundamentally disagree with the host, yet can’t refute the argument because it sounds so airtight. The host has built a strong case with lots of supporting facts.
Generally speaking, though, those facts have been selectively chosen because they support the host’s preconceived opinion, or can be interpreted to seem as if they do. In their frustration, some talk show critics accuse hosts of fabricating facts. Wrong. Hosts do gather evidence, but in a way that modifies the old Joe Friday maxim: “Just the facts that I can use to make my case, ma’am.”
Hint: The more talk show hosts squawk about something – the louder their voice, the greater their emotion, the more effusive their arguments – the more they’re worried about the issue. For example, talk show hosts eagerly participated in the 2004 Swift Boating of John Kerry because they really feared he was going to win. This is a common talk show tactic: If you lack compelling arguments in favor of your candidate or point of view, attack the other side. These attacks often rely on two key rhetorical devices, which I call You Know What Would Happen If and The Preemptive Strike.
Using the first strategy, a host will describe something a liberal has said or done that conservatives disagree with, but for which the liberal has not been widely criticized, and then say, “You know what would happen if a conservative had said (or done) that? He (or she) would have been filleted by the ‘liberal media.’ ” This is particularly effective because it’s a two-fer, simultaneously reinforcing the notion that conservatives are victims and that “liberals” are the enemy.
The second strategy, The Preemptive Strike, is used when a host knows that news reflecting poorly on conservative dogma is about to break or become more widespread. When news of the alleged massacre at Haditha first trickled out in the summer of 2006, not even Iraq War chest-thumper Charlie Sykes would defend the U.S. Marines accused of killing innocent civilians in the Iraqi village. So he spent lots of air time criticizing how the “mainstream media” was sure to sensationalize the story in the coming weeks. Charlie would kill the messengers before any message had even been delivered.
Good talk show hosts can get their listeners so lathered up that they truly can change public policy. They can inspire like-minded folks to flood the phone lines and e-mail inboxes of aldermen, county supervisors, legislators and federal lawmakers. They can inspire their followers to vote for candidates the hosts prefer. How? By pounding away on an issue or candidate, hour after hour, day after day. Hosts will extol the virtues of the favored candidate or, more likely, exploit whatever Achilles heel the other candidate might have. Influencing elections is more likely to occur at the local rather than national level, but that still gives talk radio power.
By the way,
here’s a way to prognosticate elections just by listening to talk shows: Except in presidential elections, when they will always carry water for the Republican nominee, conservative hosts won’t hurt their credibility by backing candidates they think can’t win. So if they’re uncharacteristically tepid, or even silent, about a particular race, that means the Democrat has a good chance of winning. Nor will hosts spend their credibility on an issue where they know they disagree with listeners. Charlie, for example, told me just before I left TMJ that Wisconsin’s 2006 anti-gay marriage amendment was misguided. But he knew his followers would likely vote for it in droves. So he declined to speak out directly against it.This brings us to perhaps the most ironic thing about most talk show hosts. Though they may savage politicians and others they oppose, they fear criticism or critiques of any kind. They can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
One day during a very bad snowstorm, I walked into the studio during a commercial break and suggested to Charlie that he start talking about it rather than whatever conservative topic he’d been discussing. Charlie assumed, as he usually did in such situations, that I was being critical of his topic. In reaction, he unplugged his head phones, stood up and told me that I might as well take over the show because he wasn’t going to change his topic. I was able to quickly strike a bargain before the end of the break. He agreed to take a few calls about the storm, but if it didn’t a strike a nerve with callers, he could return to his original topic.
The snowstorm was the topic of the rest of his show that day. And afterward, Charlie came to my office and admitted I’d been right. But we would go through scenarios such as this many times through the years.
Another tense moment arose when the Harley-Davidson 100th anniversary was captivating the community – and our on-air coverage – in 2003, but Charlie wanted to talk about school choice for seemingly the 100,000th time. He literally threw a fit, off the air and on, belittling other hosts, the news department and station management for devoting resources to Harley’s 100th coverage. “The Green House” newsman Phil Cianciola countered that afternoon with a joke about Charlie riding a Harley wearing loafers. Charlie complained to management about Phil and wouldn’t speak civilly about him in my presence again.
Hosts are most dangerous when someone they’ve targeted for criticism tries to return the fire. It is foolish to enter into a dispute with someone who has a 50,000-watt radio transmitter at his or her disposal and feels cornered. Oh, and calling a host names – “right-winger,” “fascist,” “radio squawker,” etc. – merely plays into his or her hands. This allows a host like Sykes to portray himself as a victim of the “left-wing spin machine,” and will leave his listeners, who also feel victimized, dying to support him. In essence, the host will mount a Hillary Rodham Clinton “vast right-wing conspiracy” attack in reverse.
A conservative emulating Hillary? Yep. A great talk show host is like a great college debater, capable of arguing either side of any issue in a logical, thorough and convincing manner. This skill ensures their continuing success regardless of which political party is in power. For example:
• In the talk show world, the line-item veto was the most effective way to control government spending when Ronald Reagan was president; it was a violation of the separation of powers after President Clinton took office.
• Perjury was a heinous crime when Clinton was accused of lying under oath about his extramarital activities. But when Scooter Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s top aide, was charged with lying under oath, it was the prosecutor who had committed an egregious act by charging Libby with perjury.
• "Activist judges" are the scourge of the earth when they rule it is unconstitutional to deny same-sex couples the rights heterosexuals receive. But judicial activism is needed to stop the husband of a woman in a persistent vegetative state – say Terri Schiavo – from removing her feeding tube to end her suffering.
To amuse myself while listening to a talk show, I would ask myself what the host would say if the situation were reversed. What if alleged D.C. Madam client Sen. David Vitter had been a Democrat? Would the reaction of talk show hosts have been so quiet you could hear crickets chirping? Hardly.
Or what if former Rep. Mark Foley had been a Democrat? Would his pedophile-like tendencies have been excused as a “prank” or mere “overfriendly e-mails?” Not on the life of your teenage son.
Suppose Al Gore was president and ordered an invasion of Iraq without an exit strategy. Suppose this had led to the deaths of more than 4,000 U.S. troops and actually made that part of the world less stable. Would talk show hosts have dismissed criticism of that war as unpatriotic? No chance.
Or imagine that John Kerry had been president during Hurricane Katrina and that his administration’s rescue and rebuilding effort had been horribly botched. Would talk show hosts have branded him a great president? Of course not.
It was Katrina, finally, that made me truly see the light. Until then, 10 years into my time at TMJ, while I might have disagreed with some stands the hosts took, I did think there were grounds for their constant criticism of the media. I had convinced myself that the national media had an intrinsic bias that was, at the very least, geographical if not ideological, to which talk radio could provide an alternative.
Then along came the worst natural disaster in U.S. history. Journalists risked their lives to save others as the storm hit the Gulf Coast. Afterward, journalists endured the stench and the filth to chronicle the events for a stunned world. Then they documented the monumental government incompetence for an outraged nation. These journalists became voices for the voiceless victims, pressing government officials to get help to those who needed it.
Yet, while New Orleans residents were still screaming for help from the rooftops of their flooded homes, journalists were targeted by talk show hosts, Charlie and Wagner among them. Not the government, but journalists. Stories detailing the federal government’s obvious slowness and inefficiency were part of an “angry left” conspiracy, they said. Talk show hosts who used e-mailed talking points from the conservative spin machine proclaimed the Katrina stories were part of a liberal “media template.” The irony would have been laughable if the story wasn’t so serious.
I went to Charlie and Jeff and told them my concerns. They waved me off. I went to Program Director Rick Belcher and told him I thought Charlie and Jeff had things terribly wrong. He disagreed. I was distraught. I felt I was actively participating in something so inconsistent with reality that even most conservative talk radio devotees would see this. But in a way, it was merely a more obvious example of how talk radio portrayed reality selectively.
I was a dedicated program manager. I helped the hosts at my station do show prep by finding stories I knew would pique their interest and fire up their constituencies. I met with Charlie Sykes daily, about a half-hour before show time, to help him talk through topics before going on the air. Charlie is one of the smartest people I know, but he performs at his best with that kind of preparation.
I often defended Jeff Wagner from upset moderates and liberals in the community. Jeff’s a very good talk show host whose brilliance is overshadowed only by his stubbornness.
I helped our program directors try to find the right role for Mark Reardon, who, in my opinion, was always miscast (he wasn’t as right-wing as Sykes or Wagner and his job was switched several times). Ultimately, that miscasting helped his career, because WTMJ laid him off, after which he became a talk show star in St. Louis, a much larger market.
I worked with news and sports hosts, too – Robb Edwards, Jon Belmont, Ken Herrera, Jonathan Green, Len Kasper, Bill Michaels – to help them craft ways to sound human and “real” behind the microphone without violating the separation of church and state that existed between the station’s talk and news programming. Sometimes I succeeded. Sometimes I didn’t.
And we were successful, consistently ranking No. 1 among persons 12 and older and in the top five in the advertiser-coveted 25 to 54 demo. Yet I was often angrily asked, once by then-Mayor John Norquist, why we just didn’t change our call letters to “WGOP.” The complaints were just another sign of our impact.
I left WTMJ with some regret, attracted by an offer to work in the cutting edge field of digital media at one of the nation’s largest news and entertainment conglomerates. By then, I had worked more than 26 years in radio news and more than 23 as a news director. In the constant push for ratings, I had seen and helped foster the transformation of AM radio and the rise of conservative hosts. They have a power that is unlikely to decline.
Their rise was also helped by liberals whose ideology, after all, emphasizes tolerance. Their friendly toleration of talk radio merely gave the hosts more credibility. Yet an attitude of intolerance was probably worse: It made the liberals look hypocritical, giving ammunition to talk show hosts who used it with great skill.
But the key reason talk radio succeeds is because its hosts can exploit the fears and perceived victimization of a large swath of conservative-leaning listeners. And they feel victimized because many liberals and moderates have ignored or trivialized their concerns and have stereotyped these Americans as uncaring curmudgeons.
Because of that, there will always be listeners who believe that Charlie Sykes, Jeff Wagner and their compatriots are the only members of the media who truly care about them.
Dan Shelley now works as a digital media executive in New York City. The views he expresses are purely his own. Write to him at letters@milwaukeemagazine.com.
In response to this story, we received the following e-mail from WTMJ:
We are surprised and saddened that a former employee, who worked with us for ten years, would choose to attack our talk shows hosts and company in this manner. Neither the station nor our hosts were offered a chance to comment on the claims made by the author. Newsradio 620 WTMJ stands by Charlie Sykes and Jeff Wagner and will continue to give their listeners the opportunity to share and participate in the best local talk programming in Milwaukee.
Steve Wexler
Executive Vice President
Television & Radio Operations
Journal Broadcast Group
--------------------------------------
Read Charlie Sykes' response here.
And read Milwaukee Magazine editor Bruce Murphy's response to Sykes here.
212 Comments
I have a similar background to Dan, and can second everything he says. I'm most troubled by the degree to which the "wall" Dan speaks of between talk shows hosts and news reporters has really broken down.
Fox News created its radio news service only about five years ago, yet has a strong foothold across the country because of all of the news talk stations that fell over themselves trying to sign up. As one program director explained it to me, their listeners don't tolerate having to listen to a dissenting viewpoint for even five minutes at the top of the hour.
Likewise, I've seen program directors make it clear to their local newsrooms (at those stations that still have one) that their product should "flow" with the talk shows themselves. In other words, if a host is vehemently anti-illegal immigration, don't expect their newscasts to have much, if any, coverage of pro-amnesty protests, even the big ones. But a story about an illegal immigrant holding up a gas station... well, you can guess.
If you really want to understand talk show hosts, you need to read their trade magazines like Radio and Records or Talkers. They're often remarkably straightforward when they think only radio execs are listening. For instance, "great American" Sean Hannity acknowledges that his main concern is audience research... finding out what his listeners want him to say, and then saying it. He's spent thousands of dollars out of his own pocket in focus groups and surveys. He regularly scans the ratings reports, looking at the topics that draw the high ratings so that he can hammer them home again and again. That's why is show is so much of a broken record... he'll repeat the exact same point day after day until the ratings or calls start to lag, then he'll move on.
It's nice to see confirmation of what we knew all along. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.
Who are these guys, Sykes and Wagner? Never heard of them.
It seems to me you came out with this expose only after your career is secured in New York. I suspect this somehow helps you in your career. I see no evidence so far (no regret expressed) that should you see something similar happening at your current job, that you would come out and stand up for what you believe in. You are more like the Iraq whistle blowers (Scott Mclelan, George Tent) who wrote a book when the information they possessed does no good to the American public. We should have known of this earlier.
Yonatan,
He makes it sound like there are only confederate ... er, I mean ... conservative talk hosts. Gawd. Those are so last millennium. The Randi Rhodeses and Ed Shutlzes of the world are what's hot now. Sure, not in AM radio. But ... I mean. AM Radio. That's like ... Ham.
Shelley might have mentioned how Sykes' smarts and brilliance are often just a rip off of national blogs. You want to know what he's going to talk about, read Malkin and Drudge and a day later it pops out of his mouth like he's the first one who thought of the topic or idea. Some people might call that plagiarism. Much of his ideas that sound original are from places like that, sometimes word for word.
I AM a conservative talk-show host, and the TRUTH is the exact OPPOSITE of what Dan just published!
He just wrote, "To succeed, a talk show host must perpetuate the notion that his or her listeners are victims, and the host is the vehicle by which they can become empowered."... which is patently FALSE!
NONE of my listeners are "victims" nor do I try to convince them that they are! They listen to my show for the FACTS, and to hear an entertaining opinion that agrees with their own. They're ALREADY inspired and emboldened to be successful and independant on their own, and they listen to my show for encouragement and emulation of ideals and values they already support and promote.
Dan's comments are nothing more than the latest attempt by a closet liberal to warp and spin "conservatism" into something "diabolical". Because "liberalism" can't survive on truth and facts, so it defends itself by making false accusations AGAINST "the truth", in an attempt to deflect the focus of the argument AWAY from itself.
"talk radio succeeds is because its hosts can exploit the fears and perceived victimization of a large swath of conservative-leaning listeners."
Welcome to the real world, where the rest of us have already figured this out.
Nothing amuses me more than watching the left and the right go at it like they're the Sharks and the Jets, like being called a 'con' or a 'lib' is some kind of insult to your entire bloodline or that these politicians actually give a good goddamn about them.
barry, If you are a conservative talk radio host please identify yourself and your show. It might lend a modi ***** of credibility to your flimsy and pointless rebuttal. Luigi
Barry,
You ARE a conservative talk show host! The TRUTH is the exact OPPOSITE of what Dan just published? Yes! It is patently FALSE! NONE of your listeners are "victims"! They listen to you for the FACTS!
Barry! Come on, man! Do you ever listen to yourself? You sound like you need some of those painkillers that Rushbaugh likes soooo much.
The Anti-Barry
Barry (if he is indeed a talk sshow host) is a perfect example of what the author was talking about. Once again playing the "Victim" card and the "Liberals" are trying to hurt "Conservatism". LOL. Very funny and ironic indeed.
Hey Barry, thanks for bolstering up Dan Shelly's already-accurate point. Hahaha... "Liberalism can't survive on truth or facts..." HAHAHA... wow. You're super. Again, thanks for backing up Dan's claims.
all the best,
volleyball
Jeez - this guy doesn't have much of a chip on his shoulder does he? This all comes off as sour grapes. I'll bet anyone in the industry can write the exact same type of article about anyone or any show they want - on either side of the aisle. It's all just a bunch of whining about nothing. Or is it a "conspiracy" ? Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhh.....
Who are Sykes and whatever the other guy's name is?
Barry -
Thanks for supporting the article by trying to make yourself look live a victim of the "liberal" spin MSM.
Good show man!
I fully agree that they know how to argue both sides of an issue. My father, an avid talk radio listener, was overjoyed when the 2000 election yielded a win to president bush. I never told him, but I knew that if the situation was turned and the popular vote would have come in for bush, but the electoral win went to al gore, he would have been livid and been crying conspiracy and victimization. The GOP is at fault for the state of things in this country as much as the Democrats are. We need to abolish career politicians if we really want change in this country, not put a new one into office every 4 years.
The opening line "I got into journalism because I thought I could make a difference" speaks volumes. I've never trusted people who have that attitude. I'd much rather see, "I got into journalism to report the news".
Barry, you're delusional. Dan's article was right on-I too, am a former conservative radio talk show producer. Your whiny defense is standard in the industry.
oooooooo...the conservatives skew things to bolster their views.
News flashboth major political parties spin. If you believe everything from either side (liberal or conservative) you are either incredibly naive or embarrassingly ignorant.
So if this is true, someone please tell me why Air America has only 11 listeners on its 4 stations it is played on.
I would hardly call Sykes a political show. Most of it isn't.
I dare you to take on Mark Belling. Ever hear of him? Yeah, same town, Milwaukee. Number 1 show for how many years now? He also substitutes for some little show called The Rush Limbaugh program, which has a few more than 11 listeners.
I'm giggling about how you can't even see your own blatant bias, which you unskillfully try to mask. The "impressive" titles you give yourself, and the backwards compliments you give do not validate the lies in your other statements.
I can't wait to hear if Belling comments on this. You will soon learn some internet lingo, such as "PWNED"
Right-wing talk radio is nothing but wall-to-wall whining and complaining meant to entertain other whiners and complainers. They're ALL victims...it's pathetic.
Widdle hepwess babies...waaaaahhhh...
Anybody that actually listens to that endless whining and complaining crap needs to get rid of their diapers and grow up.
It amazes me that this has to be expalined to anybody as if they didnt know. As someone once said, "Radio talk is like a light post to a drunk, its not so much for illumination as it is for support".
Gee Barry, I'd never have GUESSED that you are a TALK SHOW host from the all CAPS and bombast with which you TYPE!!
re: "And they feel victimized because many liberals and moderates have ignored or trivialized their concerns and have stereotyped these Americans as uncaring curmudgeons.
Well, if it walks like an uncaring curmudgeon and talks like an uncaring curmudgeon, perhaps it is not a stereotype at all.
Doesn't Kieseph Goebbelsmann of MSDNC do the very same thing?
Having worked in radio for years, a lot of what he says is true. I've seen it from both sides. Talk show hosts will simply callers who are getting the upper hand too.
I must say though that as a news directors what are you thinking running running results of a big athletic contest before it airs. That's dumb, dumb, dumb especially if you don't warn people of a coming spoiler.
Sour grapes for getting blow out? That's what it sounds like to me.
to believe that any of these 'tactics' are not also employed by the 'other' side is silly and arogant
No! No!! I AM the REAL talk show HOST! Me! You're all pretenders!!
LOL
I call Bull ***** on Barry!
All one has to do is listen to Rush, Sean, O'Reilly, etc., to know that what Dan wrote is accurate. Maybe you don't fit that mold, but if not, you are the exception, not the norm.
Geez, Barry, what you said is so plainly and obviously false, you should be embarrassed!
Reading the article one almost gets the feeling that the media had a difficult getting the Katrina story to the public because of talk radio, which is of course absurd. Response to the disaster was slow and the blame can be spread among all levels of government: local, state and federal. What the main stream media should be taken to task for is that as bad as things were, they presented them as even worse. The death toll was only a fraction of what they initially reported, the erroneous reports of stacks of dead bodies at the Super Dome and rape squads. Reporters careers were made because of this disaster and their reports were too often inaccurate.
The main difference between conservative talk radio and main stream media is that talk radio does not pretend to be impartial and even-handed.
Reminds me of something that Robert Gibbs showed with incredible skill while being interviewed by Hannity. It's on youtube under "Hannity gets served by Robert Gibbs".
Dan:
I guess this will get you to a lot of those high-teas with the royalty. If you had any "integrity" you would have written this WHEN the likes of Sykes and Wagner were supporting your bloated paycheck. Instead, you whine after the fact. I don't know what exactly to call it...but gutless comes to mind.
Barry's response was a nice parody.... I give him a B.... I bet he'll garner a few reactions
My condolences if the post was, in fact, real
There shouldn't be a "Fairness Doctrine"...why would we want some Ministry of Information evaluating if so-and-so was fair or not on his talk radio show. If you don't like a show, change the channel or turn it off.
Charlie Sykes awakened me from my dogmatic slumbers. Now I am going back to sleep.
Seriously .... it's great to know the back story, kind of like in "Kitchen Confidential" when you find out for sure that the cook peed in your soup.
Dan is correct, the problem is not misinformation, but the lack of all information. Belling,Charlie,Wagner, etc. makes perfect sense in a lot of issues, but not when all the facts are on the table. Unfortunately, when a caller does have all the facts, you never get hear it on air. But they aren't the only ones. The Journal Sentinel selectively prints articles they deem relevant or important. So what the Journal doesn't report, talk radio will. And what neither talk radio or the paper will report, well, that's what the internet is for. Half the time I read the paper or listen to AM radio, I have to think to myself, ok, what aren't they telling me?! As a result of doing my own research, I now lean heavily to the libertarian view of politics. Neither Republicans or Democrats are what this country needs. Both parties spend and tax, they just try to appeal to different people.
Dan just one cog in the machine trying to get us all ready to accept the fairness doctrine. If he can get us all to believe in the big bad boogie man of conservative talk radio then we will need big brother to protect us from said boogie man. thus ensuring we will be one step closer to a nanny state.
Having a good discussion over here on FARK.com about this.
Look for the headline:
Former Conservative talk show producer spills secrets about the format: "The reason talk radio succeeds is because its hosts exploit the fears and perceived victimization of a large swath of conservative-leaning listeners"
Then click on the numbered link to the right.
I see the exact same attitudes and game plans on both side of the fence, conservative and liberal. The difference seems to be that conservatives are actually successful.
Wow. Truly enlightening.
Someone tell this dope that his story is full of insanely obvious tripe.
Wait - you mean successful radio hosts understand their audiences and work hard to entertain them?
Shocking. Truly a revelation.
I especially love the anecdote about telling a talk show host to discuss the weather. Great suggestion. There is nothing more interesting than listening to a political commentator discussing the amount of snow there is outside.
This guy is brilliant. Is it any wonder that he isn't in the radio hall of fame?
Here's a clue:
If you can't work in radio because you are talentless, and the pinnacle of your radio career was in Milwaukee, you aren't good at your job.
Not to worry, now he writes for a tiny, virtually unknown magazine with '200,000' readers.
COngrats. You've really made it. You, sir, are a star.
posted by Your Mom
Who are Sykes and whatever the other guy's name is?
and where is mil ... milwalkee?
now everyone knows what people behind the scenes hav known for a long time: Sykes is a jerk, who will turn on former benefactors at a moments notice and carries water for establishment powers. will downplay topics that don't serve his purpose - intellectual dishonesty, really. he knows better. if he looked himself in the mirror, he'd have to admit that, because he knows better. he knows when he's trafficking in intellectual dishonesty and cheap gimmickry.
C'mon on everyone,
SURELY the post by barry was satire ?
Do you honestly think that even dittoheads are so, well, dittoheady as to write that post ? Ok, well maybe.
I think It's got to be a sane person yanking everyones chain. What
larks.
At least....... I'm 50 percent sure. Not taking odds here. Evens is all you get.
Nice one, Barry. +1 golf clap
isn't radio like...so yesterday? let them have the airwaves. their party is in the toilet.
Way to act like you are not indeed Biased the other way. Good job Perhaps the just perhaps maybe the reason these shows are SOOO popular is that 58 million Americans feel like they have no other outlet. No one ls forced to put their radio on Am and listen to Consertive talk radio, but if you want to watch any TV any hollywood Movie or 90 percent of the news stations we are plastered with a left leaning hollywood elite, that says us Americans are to stupid to know what is good for us, they are rich and famous they will TELL us what is good for us
By encouraging and defending those guys while he worked at WTMJ, Shelley shares the responsibility for their manipulative behavior and their poisonous influence.
posted by barry
"I AM a conservative talk-show host, and the TRUTH is the exact OPPOSITE of what Dan just published!"
Spare me. If you ARE a conservative talk-show host you wouldn't know the truth if it climbed up your arse.
It all comes down to money.
Whatever must be spewed to maximize the number of ears tuned to a radio show,station so as to maximize ad revenue is what will be aired.
If advocating the clubbing of baby seals maximizes revenue... then that will be the topic and the clubbing spun into a wonderful thing.
Those broadcast babblers are mere entertainers.
The majority of American citizenry, the brainwashed bleating sheep infesting the land, want to be entertained.
Do not make those sheep think, that will drive the unwashed masses away.
Just spew what the huddled masses want to hear and reap the rewards.
Oh Barry, you almost had me! That is some hilarious ironic humor there.I have an email from a station manager who admits that the programming is all conservative because having opposing points of view was found to decrease audience numbers and thus profits. All they cared about was profits. Fair and balanced is a marketing slogan no more credible than any other. The stations are programmed to make max profits, that's it, nothing more. Any sense of duty to the community is a quaint idea of the sepia toned days of the past.
Based on the thumping the Republicans received last week in Wisconsin, it is safe to say the influence of Sykes and his brethren is greatly exaggerated and that the angry white male got smart and discovered how Bush and his cronies led this country into a great economic and political crisis.
The happiest, most relaxing day of my life was when I finally decided to turn off AM radio for good. I have never looked back, and Mr. Shelly's article validates my decision. Nowadays, I get my news from NPR and my music from internet radio and XM Sirus. I don't miss the stupid commercials, either.
I will never forget the time, back when I was an occasional listener to AM talk radio, when I contacted the station manager at WTMJ because I thought Charlie Sykes had really crossed a line. Although I do not remember why I called, I vividly remember the sneering, sarcastic tone the station manager took with my complaint. To think that he would have snubbed someone who was trying to listen to the station is unbelievable to me, especially from a customer service perspective. Now, as the AM radio listening audience is chipped away, day by day, I feel a certain sense of vindication.
I'll leave you with one final thought: Go to any major presidential polling website and look for a map of the counties that switched away from the Republicans and over to the Democrats. Wisconsin is one of the regions in which more people by far left the Republican party and moved to the Democratic party. I happen to believe that the repudiation of the Republican party in WI can be directly traced to the jingoistic, racist, classist political rallies hosted by Sykes, Wagner, Belling et al. If our recent presidential election is any indication, the days of these windbags polluting our public airwaves will be numbered.
Seems to me that to be the kind of talk show host who garners millions of listeners - think Limbaugh, Hannity and Ingraham - you must be a sociopath. This explains why liberal talk show hosts aren't nearly as successful at getting the huge numbers of listeners. Also, to be a member of the vast conservative audience that responds to victimization, being a sociopath fits that bill as well.
Now I get it.
Just editing my post to mention that I am not sure whether it was the station manager who was so sneering with me, but it was definitely someone who was high in the hierarchy at WTMJ radio. I mention this just in case the station manager is a sweetie! It may have been the head of programming or something similar. But I do remember the sarcasm.
Excellent article, Dan - congrats! Especially appreciated your discussion of the hypocrisy of talk show hosts who treat similar sins in completely different ways depending on the political party of the sinner...either outrage or silence.
I have listened to Belling, Sykes and Wagner. Briefly. They promote fear, which I am not in the market for. I salute the author for telling it like it is. Katrina clarified many things in this country.
Dan,
Way to take advantage of a situation for 10 years, milk a decent salary, and then speak out against the radio programming that you were, in part, responsible for. It took you 2 years after leaving WTMJ to come to this revelation? You are either slow, a traitor, or one who has no core values that do not directly impact your pocketbook.
8 years as an associate producer huh....
Sounds like someone's upset because they never got a promotion.
Isn't the publishing of this information simply feeding the notion that members of the media are liberals out to get the conservatives?
Dan and the others like you,
Try looking up the definition of ad hominem. I doubt you know it. Let me put it in simple terms for you, it is when you attack the messenger instead of the message. The issue here is not the author. It is the hypocrisy and underhanded tactics of Sykes and Wagner, and those like him. You ignore the entire topic of the article, an try to attack the author. Why don't you respond to the points of the article? That is right, because you can't. There is no defense for the actions of Sykes and Wagner. So instead, you try to smear the one providing the message. Typical conservative or Republican tactic. We have seen that for years. Unfortunately for you, even the slowest of Americans are finally coming to this realization. Why don't you try to defend any of the actions described in this article?
It appears, at least to me, that the current and impending financial and economic realities facing Wisconsin voters trumped the likes of the trash talking tripe of Belling, Wagner and SYKEs.
Sykes does have Sunday TV show that serves a purpose. It always reminds me it is time to change the channel.
I spent over twenty years in radio sales.. so I know.
Once a PD told me he doesn't care if what is said is true or not.. the only important thing is getting the callers and the ratings. I asked about Michael Savage and he told me it was "entertainment".
Tell me, when did you ever learn anything from talk radio? Its nothing but hateful garbage presented by egotistical right wing hate mongers who lie and distort and and make countless dollars exploiting the fears and prejudices of the people. If you ever personally knew any of these people you would be astounded at their ignorance, arrogance and know-it-all attitudes. But a good voice and a gift of gab makes even bozo the clown sound respectable.
Station owners, managers, and sponsors are totally without shame for allowing this divisive crap for the sake of corporate profits.
Excellent article. Tells what the corporate managers dont dare admit
The goof above who says he gets his news from NPR had a knee-jerk reaction as far to the left as talk radio is to the right. The fact of the matter is that 58 million people want to hear reinforcing conservative views and you better get used to it.
So, if a former disgruntled Milwaukee Magazine employee went to WTMJ and asked to do an expose on the staff, do you think WTMJ would have the decency to investigate the claims? Milwaukee Magazine is a joke. Looks like Mr. Shelly is upset he never got that promotion and now he's coming back for blood. This is really in poor taste.
promotion to what? the guy was the news DIRECTOR. good try, Charlie
Hey VietnamEraVet,
By your argument, Mil Mag is guilty of the same thing just by publishing this article.
Kathy, you were probably talking to Joe Shialfa. I had a similar experience. he's the worst, a complete joke, but lacking the intellect of Sykes
cumulative modi ***** assterisk cassius massive
All debate boils down to a sliding scale...the best debates address the big picture, then you have the more localized scale, debating trivial facts and outside information, and finally ignoring a debate entirely to focus on attacking your opponent, ad hominem.
Where are you...
curious:
Poor taste? For what? Framing the subject within his experience at the station? He's in a position to comment on this based on his experience if he had left that bit out, it'd be more along the lines of an unsubstantiated rant.
I'm not saying everything he says is right, either. He doesn't even listen to his own advice, saying that conservative hosts can't handle the fire and then naming names, essentially turning the article into something of an affront to them.
I love Rush. He makes me laugh.I do not agree with everything he says.I admit this freely and to show my perspective on things.I read the BBC and the Economist because I feel they are more even handed in their news coverage.It is more honest to claim you are a conservative,give that point of view and pander to a conservative audience than it is claim you are a straight news show and slant liberal.If there is to be a Fairness Doctrine it should apply to newspapers and tv also. The last time I watched CNN for news they showed clips of the Governator's swearing in. The two anchors were cracking jokes about their looks,their clothes and the stage.That is not fair not news and not entertainihg.
One point: what happened in New Orleans was not a "natural disaster". That's what happened when Katrina hit the Mississippi Gulf Coast. What happened in New Orleans, where Katrina was (according to the National Hurricane Center) merely a strong Category 1 or weak Category 2 storm) was that a levee and floodwall "system""system in name only"
according to the agency that built it, the Army Corps of Engineerscollapsed and breached under conditions far less dire than those it was advertised to withstand. Three separate engineering investigations blamed design and construction flaws by the Corps, an agency of the Federal Government. These occurred over four decades, under administrations of both parties.
This article was a fascinating window into a twisted little world. Regardless of whether it's conservative- or liberal-leaning (though it's true the conservative shows have much more power and influence), this type of discourse is destructive, polarizing and does nothing to further our country.
And the response from the station was classic - it's Shelley's soap box. He doesn't need to get your comment, just like your talk show hosts don't need to seek their opposition's.
Does dan Shelley have any idea how small and petty this makes him look?
Does Dan Shelley have any idea how small and petty this makes him sound?
This is what disgruntled liberal news guys sound like.
Memo to WBCS colleagues: watch you back. Dan Shelley obvious has neither professionalism, nor honor.
One of the larger results of this is that it has killed regular broadcast radio. It has had disastrous effects for the music industry, and it has removed radio from people's lives who are either liberal or apolitical. Young fol,s who want to hear new music are finding their stations converted to cheaper talk formats, and simply load up their iPods. People wouldn't be spending hundreds of dollars for satellite radio if free broadcast radio weren't a cesspool.
People don't listen to radio in offices any more commuters tune to the all-news-we-promise-no-zoo-crew radio to get the traffic and sports scores. Once upon a time, Rock and roll radio transformed a generation of kids: no teenagers listen to the radio.
It's NOT about the dollars. The central place of radio in american public life is gone.
I'm a progressive, but I started tuning out when Don Imus and Howardd stern started turning radio into a vulgar ugly private space for them to vent. The sense of immunity and superiority is what turns me off, even when they're not right wing.
The younger generation doesn't even miss it. I don't any more.
Congrats Dan- excellent. I just wonder why it was ok when you were there? Where have you been? Timing makes it less credible Dan. But, nonetheless, informative and enlightening.
As a regular listener to "Fresh Air" (NPR), I hear the trashing of conservatives on a regular basis (check out Bill Moyer's interview from last week). They trot out the same tired arguments in much the same way conservatives do. I think it makes for great theater, and I believe most people have the ability to discern amongst the competing ideologies. Isn't it great to live in a country where all sides are represented and can be discovered merely by changing stations?
Not such a bad description of hate radio. Sounds to me like he simply described what everyone knows anyway.
But I got to say that hate radio really gets boring after a while. There is just so much self-righteous indignation and sense of victimization one person can take. After a while, it no longer stirs the soul but merely irritates the mind.
We know newspapers and talk radio and all news media are businesses trying to keep ratings up and revenue flowing, but we still believe (hope?) down in our guts that they are objective purveyors of the facts. All the news reporting should be prefaced with: "This is a dramatization. Based on a true story."
The outrage springs from the simple reaction that nobody wants to be a sucker. People either become bitter and unhappy because the news has betrayed their trust or people rage and defend their news source because they will never admit to being a sucker.
While station or channel surfing, there have been times when the selector has VERY accidentally stopped at a neogoon rage fest.
It's as if I'd been talking a walk in my neighborhood and stepped in dog crap.
I feel as if I have to clean my shoes and ears.
I am neither a dem or rep.
I am independent.
As such, even though I avoid talk shows like I avoid marriage, I am able to CLEARLY note the difference in the neurotic raging of the rw shows versus the so called liberal shows.
These raving ragers such as this sykes character and fellow clones are of an identical pattern.
It s4eems that they put their lies and cons into petri dishes to let them incubate. Then, when they feel that the smell is sufficiently foul, they swallow it and spew forth into their microphones, knowing that their average listener is easily infected with the same disease.
Their lack of legitimacy and antiAmerican attitude is diametrically opposed to someone such as Rachel Maddow who brings scholarship and a legitimate intelligence to her comments.
She treats others with respect and very rarely interrupts those who are speaking.
THAT is another ploy which the raving ragers use, the screaming interruption.
Rather than the transparencies of the raving ragers, the interruptions are why I initially tuned them out.
This is THE ploy used when their raves have no basis in reality and, consequently are unable to make valid points of legitimate debating.
So, I find that the article is fair and balanced and TRUTHFUL.
Oh, yes. I'm an "older" guy, own a business, a home, some boats, 2 trucks, a Jaguar convertible and GUNS.
You could says that I'm a capitalist who is independent, progressive with a few conservative leanings(my guns) and a very assertively aggressive libertarian.
I'm an old straight jock who is not at all threatened by being with a gay person. Unlike the fear and imbalance these raging ravers like to claim, it is NOT contagious.
Typing this felt GOOD!!
I used to think that Dan Shelley was a common-sense journalist who deserved respect. However, it is clear from this article that he is nothing more than a liar and a liberal pussy who couldn't write his way out of a wet paper sack.
What a joke!
Nice thing about living in America is we have choices. Gee, if you don't like the radio station you are listening to, CHANGE THE CHANNEL! When their listener-ship is down, advertisers will fade and so will they. Amen to Rob (above), we do get many views and don't need the government (that couldn't run a pop-corn stand) to start telling stations what they can and cannot talk about. People can decide for themselves what they "feel", they don't need someone such as Shelly to intervene on their behave. Something suspect about these "sour grapes" sort of articles. Certainly they lack class.
I find it very interesting that Dan Shelley has suddenly felt compelled to share all of this "news" about his experience with talk radio. He sounds like a whiney commercial for the Fairness Doctrine.
Charlie Sykes is irrelevant. Just like the writer happily left the unexamined "little world" Sykes inhabits for a more mature and intellectual enterprise, I relish the moment every morning when I change my radio dial (I listen to TMJ when I drive home from work at night) to another station. I tried to take in Sykes' broadcast one morning and had to switch away after 15 minutes. Listening to Sykes' childish retorts, smug invective and silly focus on the conservative outrage du jour, I felt myself growing dumber.
Finally someone says what many people already knew: That Sykes is an unethical, sleaze. If anything he's worse personally than this article even came close to describing
This article should be required reading for school children so they can learn to better detect the manipulation of information.
"I first got into journalism because I thought I could make a difference."
He means so I can push my own agenda. This article is nothing more than sour grapes. However I believe the timing of it is connected to the changes that are coming to Washington in January. Especially with Henry Rivera running the FCC.
You're either for government censorship (fairness doctrine) or you're against it.
Rob,
Yes Terri Gross is obviously a liberal, but she actually invites people with conservative views to come on her show, and, unlike say Bill O'Reilly, talks to them like adults rather than shouting them down and ridiculing them for having the temerity to reside on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
If right wing talk radio is so bad, and if liberal left wing talk radio is so good, can someone tell me why Air America failed and Rush and company are still out there blowing hot air?
And doesn't liberal talk radio that exists, exist only because of government subsidies?
Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's just that some opinions are interesting and free, and other are boring even when paid for by my taxes.
"neogoon rage fest". Independent Ron, what a fantastic phrase. Keep up the contributions so we can continue to be entertained. Thanks.
Oh Charlie I breathlessly couldn't agree more and I am erotic in my support, please like me Rush, thank you thank you Mark and I kiss your feet for taking my call.
LOL you can tell by the time stamp on the replies when Sykes began whining about this. His loyal lemmings jumped to kissass. Did you suckups remember to copy to Charlie?
What is really the worst is that I needed to stop listening to sports on TMJ and figure out another avenue in the event of an emergency broadcast. Imagine an emergency and having to listen to Sykes whine and complain and whine and complain. No wonder he is divorced.
By the unusually late timing of Mr. Shelley's article, it would appear that he is demonstrating nothing more than hypocrisy and cowardice. If this was, in fact, such a pressing issue for Shelley, then why didn't this brave journalist speak up about it when he was in Milwaukee? Was he afraid of Charles Sykes and Jeffrey Wagner? Was he in fear for his position? Was he worried about becoming a victim of all those conservative hate mongers...the clingers? Or, was it simply greed and resentment that led to the writing of this article?? Certainly, we'll never get to the truth about Shelley's motivation. Whatever sliver of journalistic integrity he had has now been supplanted with his own petty suspicion and jealousy.
The only secret that's been revealed in this article is Dan Shelley's secret disdain for Charlie Sykes and Jeff Wagner. They're no longer putting meat on his table, so he's free to trash them to promote his own agenda.
The REAL secret to talk radio: Right wing talkers subtly work to connect male gender insecurity to conservative politics. They are constantly selling the idea that any stance that is not far-right is somehow sissyfied.
Jim...how enlightening. You must be one of those liberal, socialistic, milk-toast sissies.
Mr. Shelley was the NEWS DIRECTOR for WTMJ.
What exactly is he complaining about?
Seems like he thinks he's exposing something that needs to be exposed.
Seems like he doesn't understand the differences between opinionated talkshows and news reporting.
Those in the NEWS BUSINESS (journalist and reporters...) are supposed to objectively report the news without personal bias. This is a truth that is commonly forgotten these days. Even the news distributors (wire services like AP and Reuters etc ... ) are biased in their choice of words and news choices. People have such strong political opinions these days that it is almost impossible to write and report without bias. But ... it is the journalist job to override this urge and write and report with fairness and balance.
Now let's talk about Talk Show hosts and Newspaper COLUMNISTS! They don't have this same obligation!! They are overtly biased and opinionated! That's what they do. And if the listeners is like-minded they attract a big audience. ANd if their message falls flat or can't be rationally defended ... they don't (remember the failed liberal AIR AMERICA? It's not our fault that locally Kathleen Dunn and Joel McNally don't have a following ... or much societal influence).
Shelley is not exposing anything. To become informed and research other opinions in preparation for an interactive talk-show seems like a no brainer. Having opinions about the urgency of reporting weather, tennis or harley events is just that ... opinion. And since it's Charlie's show...maybe he should have a say.
I'm sorry that Mr. Shelley is so frustrated that conservative talk-radio has a strong following ... and that Sykes is superb at it ..... but being disgruntled and lashing out like an immature child is laughable. Especially since liberal employment options are so plentiful. If Mr. Shelley was truly an honorable news journalist-director, he would be able to do his job (hopefully without bias) and accept different points of view as DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.
I'm so tired of people that don't realize that there's a dial on their radio. Dials can be turned. I'm so tired of liberal media members that can't see the forest for the trees. Shelley is a tree among many other trees ..... Charlie Sykes is not a tree ... but he's still a legitimate part of the forest.
There is a difference between opinions and newsreporting. Seems obvious to me but I think I'm in the minority. It's like when Tom Brokaw criticizes Rush Limbaugh or when MJS Editors rip Mark Belling ..... it's pointless. Opinion-talkers and Opinion-columnists can express their bias, newscasters and journalists are to be objective. Apples and oranges.
(It is for these same reasons that I happily ended my Milw Journal Sentinel subscription.)
Wouldn't it be great if there was a liberal radio talk in Milwaukee? I would love to listen to a show that consisted of repeating "It's for the kids" for 3 hours.
Serving up liberal talk radio in Milwaukee??? And, how's about some tofu brats and near beer too? HA HA HA
Folks, go to the Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Rochester board on Radio-Info.com and scroll down to threads like "Since 'Change' is the Current Buzzword...", "Fairness Doctrine" and "Rage on the Radio". You'll see that while the more shortsighted radio pros refuse to acknowledge that stations have an editorial right and responsibility to curb the more toxic far-right material that the pampered prima donnas of talk radio put out, there's also more than a little resentment among some of the radio community and their listeners.
While I cannot opine directly about WTMJ's content, in a generic sense Dan Shelley is spot-on and station managements around the country are in deep denial - especially as I think they are asleep to the possibility that technology will have undermined the business model of AM talk radio as we know it within a few years. In September we lost Rochester's liberal talk station, and I went out and bought a WiFi internet radio. It's truly liberating - over 11,000 stations available, any of which can be tuned in within seconds once established on presets. The choices beat satellite radio hands down and if you already have a WiFi internet connection the service is free.
Once WiFi reaches critical mass, the advantage of 50,000 watts versus 1000 watts will be wiped out, and the WTMJs of this world will deservedly have their come-uppance for the contempt they show towards half or more of their potential listeners.
In case anyone viewing this really does want to hear liberal talk radio, go to 820 AM from Chicago. WCPT can be picked up fairly well in Milwaukee, however it's a daytime-only station. Their weekday shows are all syndicated (Bill Press, Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman, Rachel Maddow).
Stephanie is enjoyable, she's a professional comedian with two flunkies who do a lot of mimicry. She's also the daughter of Barry Goldwater's running mate.
Wow,if you really want to make a difference... instead of spending all that time writing the aritcle you could of been helping feed the poor or looking into helping less privileged people than yourself. Of course everyone needs to unload...maybe try a diary. Good-luck making a difference.
I laughed aloud when I read that Shelley said he wanted to "make a difference". This was commonly spouted in J-School (Journalism School) after Watergate. It's one thing to make a difference by exposing truths and doing serious and fair investigative reporting but it's a whole different thing to regurgitate (not even RE-WRITE!) biased news releases issued by AP and Reuters. Seriously, it doesn't take a great analytical mind to see how things are written with a bias to emphasize an ideology. Turn your radio on and listen to the news reports - even reporters on the stations with popular conservative talk shows simply read press releases without scrutinizing it for fairness and balance.
Shelley has every right to express himself in Milwaukee Magazine. And if it's cathartic for him to unload on WTMJ...fine. And if it gets him high-fives and a good paying job from the rest of the liberal media....ok. But...if he thinks he's representing himself well to the rest of society, guess again. To his current and future employer - BEWARE! But I'm sure Shelley double-checked to make sure he was among DAN SHELLEY CLONES before he accepted his current position. He doesn't seem like the type of person that's willing to be intellectually challenged.
SPOT ON ARTICLE DAN ... Here's a message for Wexler, Rush, Hannity and the other Neo Nazi's on our air waves. WE'RE COMING AFTER YOUR AIR SPACE. Making nice, nice is over. It's now search and destroy time, one station at a time. Of course we'd never stop your right to free speech in nowhere Alaska w co-anchor Hockey Mom. Hell no, it's time to getcha where it really counts .. the money. Look out for us cons, we're about to cut off your life line. Let the BETTER times roll!
Hey... oncemanc: "editorial right and responsibility"??? What the hell does that mean? Sounds like blatant censorship to me! What exactly constitutes "toxic far-right material"? Is there any such thing as "toxic far-left material" (aka...Bill Maher, Al Franken, Keith Olberman, etc. etc. etc.). Why is it that the Fairness Doctrine isn't applied to television or newspapers? The answer is: the liberals control those outlets, so there's no need. Simple as that.
jd...you're an ass...another plain and simple truth. Clearly, you are a frustrated sissy boy who now feels vindicated. It's safe for you to intellectually masturbate. But keep it to yourself.
hey jd: right on brother. You just keep preachin' that good liberal hate stuff. you're gonna go a long way with that.
jd's really helping his cause, right? He exemplifies what I hear so often from the left.
Dan,
Last night (Thurs 10-14-08) Bill O'Reilly appeared on The Daily Show. Like others, O'Reilly has been agitating listeners to fear Obama. In the lead-up to the O'Reilly interview, Jon Stewart implied that such agitation might be leading to the increase in gun purchases since Obama won the election.
Rather than taking a combative approach, Stewart used a friendly approach with his usual humor. Stewart first made a show of soothing O'Reilly's fears about Obama, giving him tea and a small teddy bear. Next he engaged O'Reilly in a serious debate about the alleged danger of Obama's presidency. Stewart did not mock or deride to any significant extent, or at least so it seemed to me. Instead, he took on O'Reilly as a serious debating opponent.
Do you think Stewart's strategy could, if widespread, accomplish anything to counter O'Reilly's influence?
Something or someone of comparable persuasiveness ought to be deployed to give the public a bit of perspective on O'Reilly's bullying and hateful propaganda, I think. Could the "Stewart method" help?
Thank you very much.
Regards,
Ralph
Cherry Hill, NJ
Dan,
Not to worry, a revolution is on its way. Hypocrisy and cherry-picking can only be sustained if you have total control over your message. As more and more people get their news from interactive sources (such as this post which I am able to respond to!), the self-serving arguments can be disarmed.
Ratings will fall, and while some will adapt, such as John Gambling in my market, others will just go the way of extinction.
Isn't interesting that Mr. Shelley's time at WTMJ was so painful and difficult that on his own Linkedin.com page he mentions Wisconsin's Morning News and The Green House, but not Sykes or Wagner! I guess he would lose cred with all his left-wingnut pals at WCBS-TV in New York if he mentions that he worked with GASP! conservatives.
He obviously believes that he presents a reasoned, fact-filled case against the legitimacy of conservative talk radio, when it is transparent that it's just a self-indulgent rant concerning his personal feelings and emotions. Of course that's because reason and facts are alien concepts to liberals whose life views revolve around feelings and self-esteem, just look at his take on the devastation of Katrina and how journalists risked their lives. Boy, is there a more noble profession than journalism?
As for getting into journalism because he thought he could make a difference, well, that doomed him from the start. Joseph Goebbels made a difference, Stalin made a difference, Pol Pot made a difference. How about getting into journalism because he liked reporting, or current events, or telling people what happened when they weren't there? What a ridiculous, sophomoric ideal. Try that for other careers, I became a bartender to make a difference, I became a sales clerk to make a difference, I became a computer programmer to make a difference. Good grief, don't be so full of yourself.
"isn't radio like...so yesterday? let them have the airwaves. their party is in the toilet."
Annie, I tend to agree, but what about this surge of gun sales? Jon Stewart seems to think it is happening because of propagandists like Bill O'Reilly and his ilk. I find that possibility quite disturbing.
Ralph
Ralph...Are you a closet "valley girl"?
The gun sales thing? Don't worry. It's just us "clingers" here in the midwest. I'm sure your criminals in NJ are liberal enough to just rob you (re-distribute your wealth to themselves), and then simply kill you with kindness, rather than using a real weapon.
Oopsy .. I almost forgot TV adverts. Once we under fund the air waves right out from under the Neo Nazi Cons noses, we'll ship O'Lielly off to Alaska's Channel 2 for a spot on "Hockey Talk" with your host Sarah Palin. Courtesy of MSNBC.
Not so fast, jd. Won't be long before Obama's caught in the oval office with a cigar and a stain of his own.
Wow! Dan seems to have rather severe issues. A grudge of some kind. I never heard him whine when TMJ won the Marconi Award 2 or 3 years in a row. Since conservatives and Republicans lost handily earlier this month, seems like Sykes and Wagner hold very little sway over listeners. So, lemme get this straight: Dan Shelley wants Obama and Pelosi to pass a law that forces private radio stations ALL OVER the USA to put on liberal talkshows? He must be a mole secretly working for television because that is the surest way for radio to lose listeners and revenue and become an easy-listener FM station. Dan Shelley is a complete jerk.
What you right-wing eternal victims don't understand is that liberals, while we may dominate in real news, are liberal because we believe in the value of facts. We believe in vigorous pragmatic debate. The idea that the White House sends talking points to the masses via talk radio verbatim is abhorrent to liberals. That's literally propaganda. And these hosts are essentially talented snake-oil salesmen, distracting you from facts that contradict their opinions and overemphasizing facts that support it. If you've ever met a real journalist, yes she is most likely a Democrat, but she is also extremely defensive of the ethics of journalism, the entire goal of which is to get at facts. The problem with right-wing dittoheads is that they have opinions they refuse to change in light of new facts. They seek out facts to confirm opinions they already have THEN they assume liberals think the same way. We don't. We value truth and objectivity. That's what it MEANS to be a liberal. So if the mainstream news is liberal that is exactly how it should be.
HEY BOB!! MARCONI AWARD?? That's a laugh. You mean the same award given by David Rehr (former beer governor)now head of the National Association of Broadcasts who contributed money to 16 Republican failed campaigns out of the 23 donations given by the NAB? Oh yeah ... that Marconi. We thought you meant something credible!!
Why are most of you making this about liberal vs. conservative?? It is really about a disgrunteled ex-employee of WTMJ. One of the facts that makes this country great is being able to speak one's mind however it is sad that it has to be done in such a name calling way...why the anger??
tony...isn't it the liberals who feel victimized by conservative talk radio? You've whined about it for years. Yet no one ever addresses the lies of Bill Maher or Keith Olberman or Dan Rather or Al Franken or Michael Moore or Acorn. There is an uncomfortable convenience about the things you chose to identify as "fact".
You claim to value truth and objectivity and claim "That's what it means to be a liberal", yet the mainstream (read "liberal") media was anything but objective during the months leading up to the election. Even Michael Malone of ABC saw the glaring bias www.abcnews.go.com
Keep your liberalism and your mainstream media crap. We don't want anything to do with it.
Won't it be nice for at least the next 8 years to have the Repignofascist hate speech machine neutered by an adult in the White House for a change? It couldn't have happened soon enough. If it was up to me I would listen only to Ed Schulz and In Your Face Radio. No other radio provides as much balanced and truthful information as those two. As for Rush and the rest - they exist to exicte the 30 percent of Americans who, like Sarah Palin, believe the earth is 6000 years old. Enough with their idiocy.
Hey Ben...Looks like when you bent over, Obama gave a a big surprise. It's ok though. I'm sure you enjoyed it!
Hey BenDover. Isn't it refreshing that after an 8 year absence, to finally have a real (elected) President again?
And David. We're gonna seize the air waves, one sponsor at a time. Let the BETTER TIMES ROLL!
It's humorous to me that liberals (like Shelley) are so worried about conservative talk-radio and the way they prep and conduct their shows.
It's humorous that even though liberal media outnumbers conservative (or balanced) media by a huge margin (most Newspapers, TV and Magazines lean left) they are worried about radio.
Maybe because radio is the most interactive. And maybe it's because in order to host a 3-4 hr talkshow SUCCESSFULLY you need to have arguments that can hold up to scrutiny. Newspapers and Magazines enjoy the luxury of a onesided relatonship in which they spin things to their advantage. TV news is so ridiculously left that it's difficult to watch. Hmmm I wonder why TV news ratings are down? I wonder why newspaper and news magazine subscriptions are down? Gee I wonder why Fox News viewership is so high... People think Fox News is ultra right-wing. Ridiculous. Having some conservative reporters and show-hosts simply means they are more balanced. It's all relative. Even with one conservative they'd be labeled as a mouthpiece for the RNC. Other tv news staffs have ZERO.
As for conducting successful conservative talk-radio..... understand that 75 percent of the time Rush Limbaugh, Charlie Sykes and Mark Belling are merely using liberal Dem's own words and statements against them. Nobody needed to sit down and conjure up a plan to portray Obama as a Socialist, he did it himself. Nobody put words (or other things) into Barney Frank's mouth - he said what he said. Etc... etc... etc.....
It's so funny that just because the Dems finally won a presidential election that they think they dominate. If they feel so secure with that thought - maybe they'd agree to do away with same day voter registration and agree to photo IDs at the Voting booth. Put your money where your mouth is.
It's so funny that according to the liberal media:
Obama wins with 52 percent = unified country but George W Bush wins with 51 percent means DIVIDED country. That....in one sentence is evidence of the widespread bias in the "drive-by media" (as Rush would say).
But the Left can only spin reality for so long....
And SHelley is jealous (and paranoid)...as a News Director he was not supposed to reveal his bias, opinions or political ideology while performing his job. Sykes and all other talk-show hosts and opinion columnists get paid to do it.
I think it's hilarious that the libs think they're going to "seize the airwaves". The conservative talk hosts relish dem party rule, because it provides so much fodder for their shows.
The best times in talk radio, prior to the months leading up to the election, were the 4 years of Clinton's second term. Guys like Rush and Hannity had a field-day, just as they will over the next 4 years watching Obama and the democrat congress flail and flop.
Sponsor dollars flock to these shows, because of one simple fact people listen. If you don't believe that fact, then you are completely ignorant of how radio works and what makes it so incredibly successful.
The only way that the dems can "seize the airwaves" will be to pass the Fairness Doctrine. That would be a travesty.
This article is just as skewed, as much B.S. and uses the exact same tactics as Shelley is accusing conservative talk show hosts of!
Like... leaving out convenient facts? He says several times that certain opinions or facts are omitted by Charlie Sykes, but I recall hearing Charlie state the EXACT thing that Shelley says he didn't say! (i.e. the gay-marriage amendment Charlie DID say he thought it was a BAD idea because he didn't believe it was an appropriate use of an amendment!)
Get over yourself Dan Shelley. I don't agree with a lot of what Charlie Sykes says, but I'm smart enough to see when a "tactic" is in play and YOU are playing the game just as much as he is!
Sounds like Shelly is two year old having a tantrum at the expense of his former employer. Real mature and real classy. Hope those who currently work with him are watching their backs and every word they say. It is apparent that Shelly will do or say anything to place himself center stage or try a pathetic attempt to boost his career. Hey Shelly, get a grip and grow up.
I see that a lot of the comments prove the author's point and they don't even realize they're doing it.
I listen to WTMJ because that is where I go for news and information. I am NOT a victim and have never thought of myself as one. I may not agree with everything Wagner or Sykes says and when he talks about a topic I am not interested in, I turn it off....now THERE is a concept!
Someone (Sykes) is protesting WAY too much
Check out his blog for his 10,000 word diatribe response, which is hysterical
Talk about "defensive." What does he think he is gaining with this defensive rant?
What he also doesn't seem to get is Shelley's criticism about his gay marriage stance seems to be that behind the scenes Sykes clearly supported it but couldn't bring himself to say that on the air (even though he hemmed and hawed about it for a long time) because he doesn't have the guts to stick to principle on an issue he knows the majority os his audience opposes. That's the definition of pandering and hypocrisy
Sykes slippery ethics are well known to those in politics and the media... Shelly only scraped the surface.
The truth is that "conservative" talk radio is a commercial success, and that the liberal end of the spectrum has yet to find a way to get their viewpoint across to gain listeners.
The reason most callers who wish to disagree lose their battle isn't because they are belittled, it's because they can't come up with a coherent arguement.
Wow..
This article is great. I explains SO much. I was trying to figure out why a guy like McCain, who I really liked until about 6 months ago, could go so negative and do so many stupid things.
He learned it from the conservative talk radio crowd! Now I get it. If only he'd 1) been himself and 2) picked someone reasonable for VP.. I promise you, he'd be President Elect McCain right now.
Following this 'fear' philosophic is pure posion. I honestly hope the country's figured that out (as it appears to have done).
Betcha all the conservative talk show hosts will see slowly dropping rating for the next decade.
Kudos to Dan Shelley, for hitting that Sykes' nerve for all us little people who have heard what happens to anyone who tries to join Charlie's mosh pit (only to be sucker punched by the screener).
As for anyone naive enough to think talk show hosts care about anyone but themselves, you're living in a fantasy world.
Oh. And WWF wrestling is fake, too.
Conservative radio is lame as hell. I think it's pretty much made for people with dysfunctional sex organs. Anything on the radio is crap anyway, I think the only reason why conservative radio is successful is because republicans can't figure out how to hook up their Ipods to their stereos.
One of the things I noticed about the comments on the post is the way conservatives try make their point by EMPHASIZING random words. DOUCHE BAGS. Y'all need to stop that nonsense. It just annoys us liberals.
This post was pretty good at breaking down the propaganda. Right-wingers should actually be scared by this. Once this gets into the collective conscious, they're doomed.
anyway, my point is that all conservatives have tiny *****
Conservative radio is lame as hell. I think it's pretty much made for people with dysfunctional sex organs. Anything on the radio is crap anyway, I think the only reason why conservative radio is successful is because republicans can't figure out how to hook up their Ipods to their stereos.
One of the things I noticed about the comments on the post is the way conservatives try make their point by EMPHASIZING random words. DOUCHE BAGS. Y'all need to stop that nonsense. It just annoys us liberals.
This post was pretty good at breaking down the propaganda. Right-wingers should actually be scared by this. Once this gets into the collective conscious, they're doomed.
anyway, my point is that all conservatives have tiny *****
Well Steve ... get the meds ready for your "travesty" .. oops can you say Fairness Doctrine? Let me repeat that .. F-A-I-R-N-E-S-S D-O-C-T-R-I-N-E. But I do see your dilemma. To the Neo Nazi right, the word "fairness" is scary.
Steve, I don't need to tell you what "editorial right and responsibility" means all you have to do is read the terms of use of this board, specifically the stipulation that
"the Content is not obscene, libelous, hateful, defamatory, threatening or racially or ethnically objectionable, does not violate the privacy or publicity rights of any third party, does not encourage conduct that would be a criminal offense, violate any law, or is otherwise inappropriate"
and the further statement that
"Milwaukee Magazine may terminate your access to all or any part of the Website at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately."
If you need it spelt out further, the editor of this board has the right reject anyone's contributions. If you consider that to be censorship, so be it. Presumably radio stations have contracts like this with on-air personalities or their agents and they have the right to enforce them. If they were actually enforced, several well-known personalities (mostly but not exclusively on the right) could not stay on the air for long. "Libelous, hateful, defamatory, threatening or racially or ethnically objectionable" describes exactly what these characters spout day after day after day. Station managers should ask themselves if they would feel comfortable either being addressed face to face, or themselves speaking to others, in this way.
Why the hell would the news director be walking into the studio to give the host tips on his show? That's what program directors are for. This guy should have been busy enough focusing on making sure the state's largest radio news operation was doing its job. If I were Charlie, I would have locked the door. Or was that an episode of WKRP?
Bravo Dan for telling it like it is. About time. For years, I trolled the radio waves listening to Lush Limbaugh, the Leprechan, Sykes, Wagner, and the other radio trolls. Always suspected there was collusion and talking points handed out daily to these dweebs because they weren't bright enough to come up with their own topics. Now you've confirmed it. I hope and pray the Fairness Doctrine comes back and puts these miscreants in their respective places the looney tunes bin where they belong. But I love their WHINING since they lost the election (elections). HA!
Jimbo
There's one medium where liberals don't get to sling their crap without challenge and they just cannot stand it. Talking about your whining - read some of these posts about talk radio. Yeah, those lib radio hosts are really happening - haha. There hasn't been a successful one yet.
The author of this piece is a typical mealy-mouthed liberal, big man talking it up when he has another position secured. I am not impressed.
I listen to Sykes and Wagner every day. I listen because I WANT to. This is just Dan's pitiful attempt to bring in the "Fairness Doctrine" because they can't get anyone to listen to propoganda like Air America.
I'm surprised the author nor anyone posting here has not yet brought up one of the predominant reasons conservatives fester on the radio while liberals mingle on blogs and written media.
It doesn't take much intelligence to pick up the phone and talk. Elementary school children master that skill.
It takes a little more maturity and intellect to write out coherent arguments that are grammatically correct and in complete sentences (without using all caps) not to mention rational and cogent.
Conservatives flock to radio programming because, basically, it is the lowest common denominator the only level to which they can aspire.
Will the stupid holier than thou journalists just please shut up. After what I saw in this last election, you have made many, many people angry with your all-out protection of the Messiah. Guess we will see many more of these articles, since the media is determined to get rid of Rush Limbaugh, Michael Reagan, Michael Savage, Hannity, and many more. Look, you picked the candidates, and by your Pravda methods, elected Barack Hussein Obama. Don't worry, the Fairness (what a name for this bill) will bet rid of all those right-wing hateful Conservatives. Your extreme left-wing is protected.
I worked for a major liberal cable news network...same thing. All bias all the time. Reporters worked with the Clinton Administration to get the latest talking points and then I would hear the message repeated on all the liberal networks like an echo chamber. I was surprised but wet behind the ears. Without talk radio there is no other point of view beyond liberal and Democratic party.
I'd like to hear Dan's explanation as to why left wing talk radio is such a dismal failure. I guess they are not angry since they have the drive by media on their side. The MSM died in 2008 just waiting for their rotting corpses to be dragged out.
hey roger
projection is not a good defense mechanism
My experience includes managing several large market news talk stations, and I was the program director of several others, all bigger stations than WTMJ. In my opinion, the former employee who wrote this article simply has an ax to grind. The author is way off base in his statements about talk radio. He reels off a list of sweeping generalizations, all of them off base. For example, if I was to say "Milwaukee magazine writers received daily talking points from the Obama campaign", any halfway intelligent person would laugh at that statement. Likewise, only the most paranoid person would believe that radio hosts get "daily talking points" from the White House. Give me a break. You can file this article with UFO reports, Bigfoot exposes, and the Loch Ness monster. It is an irrational left wing screed.
Sure looks like Stevie is pretty bitter. I am amused by his faux "shock" about how conservative talk radio works. In FACT what he described is how PEOPLE work. EVERYONE works how Stevie complains that his radio talker acted. We ALL listen to sources we approve of, read that line, parrot it, sometimes disagree but usually cheer for our side. Stevie is so blind with hatred for conservatives that he doesn't realize he was describing human nature, not just eeeevil conservatives. Advice for Stevie: Grow up and quit whining.
Ooops, I meant Danny not Stevie. I saw Steve at the end of the piece and wrote that before I realized Steve was the station manager that replied to what Dan the whiner was saying. Apologies.
"So if this is true, someone please tell me why Air America has only 11 listeners on its 4 stations it is played on."
Because the more intelligent, liberal minds get their news from unbiased sources (Internet, RSS feeds, etc), and make decisions about it themselves, whereas in the conservative world, people are buying up guns like mad because they actually believe Obama is going to hinder their ability to. Wonder where this hive mind's queen is?
I'm really shocked by the comments of Steve Wexler, Steve.this election America has spoken and voted to the left. My Guess is there sick of radio stations like yours right wing "trash talk".
But what upsets me more is they were not given the chance to comment..... How many times do your talk hosts allow some one from the other side to comment?
Poor Baby go back to answering the phones for Jon Green you have trashed just about all of your products 94.5, WTMJ TV and 620 radio is starting to sink as well.
I did an article many years ago about Father Charles Coughlin, who developed the same tactics of verbal abuse and fear and hate mongering that Charlie Sykes, Jeff Wagner, Jessica McBride, and Mark Belling use on a daily basis. His target was the Jews. Funny, for a man who created the shrine to St Theresa Liseaux, and who was also an advocate for workers right, his support of Hitler and Mussolini are almost resonant to what Sykes and Wagner advocate today. It may be that 30 or 50 years will show that these shills for hatred are what they are: Inadequate men who can only attack, and not solve problems.
It is also interesting that Steve Wexler has completely gone into whoring poor news on WTMJ 4 and WTMJ Radio. To think he once had morals and a sense of decency.
I do not believe the article dealt sufficiently with the intellectual dishonesty of radio talkers, their over-reliance on dubious sources,their failure to credit the research of others, their elitism and their general unpleasantness as social beings.
Otherwise, a fair and balanced account.
Michael Horne
www.milwaukeeworld.com
There are many kettles calling the pot black on this comment thread - people attacking talk radio for trashing people, who are then trashing talk radio (and Republicans) in the most simplistic, juvenile, silly terms. Some of these comment writers should look in the mirror... or just read their own posts.
Talk radio is just verbal opinion. It is no more about name calling and trash talking than Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich, Ellen Goodman, Eugene Kane, Daily Kos, Folkbum, any number of name-calling Wisc. liberal blogs, etc. etc. etc.
To single out talk radio in this manner? Please.
I do not believe the article was the least bit balanced as it did not deal sufficiently with the intellectual dishonesty of the left, their over-reliance on dubious sources,their failure to credit the research of others, their elitism and their general unpleasantness as social beings.
Otherwise, it was an unfair and out of balanced account.
Michael Horny
www.milwaukeesworld.com
"Because the more intelligent, liberal minds get their news from unbiased sources (Internet, RSS feeds, etc), and make decisions about it themselves, whereas in the conservative world, people are buying up guns like mad because they actually believe Obama is going to hinder their ability to. Wonder where this hive mind's queen is?" Nice...Orson Scott Card reference? More intelligent, liberal minds also get their news from the likes of Moveon, hollywood, Rosie O-bleh-Donnel, that Huffington genious...etc. Beat up conservatism all you wish, but you may want to sweep out your own closet first...
I like how WTMJ responded with an email stating that "neither the station nor our hosts were offered a chance to comment on the claims made by the author."
Umm, that's WTMJ's response? Claiming they don't have a chance to respond? What kind of twisted logic that? It just reenforces the idea that Dan was making about conservatives painting themselves as "victims."
If you're going to send a response, WTMJ, then send a response! With some genuine content! Participate in an actual exchange of ideas and viewpoints. You can do it! What are you scared of?
Dan Shelley is close to the truth. But I have long believed that the main reason for the success of Rush Limbaugh and his many imitators is simply this: they have figured out how to make stupid people feel smart.
Every wonder why conservatives blame everything on liberals when they supposedly believe in "personal responsibility"? Or why they rail against big government but didn't say a peep about wiretapping? I'm a libertarian who likes a little consistency.
This article is written from the perspective of an author who seems to believe that rightwing talk show hosts are SANE. Please. They are fanatics and they're crazy and dangerous. They need serious psychological help. Narcissism, borderline personality disorder, paranoia...you name it. They (and their stations) exploit their ravings to stir up listeners who are either (1) self-defined or genuine victims (and there are real victims out there, though they usually blame the wrong system and individuals for their woes), or (2)raving lunatics like themselves who are also in dire need of psychiatric help. Hitler was popular, yes, but also crazy. And need we say, dangerous. Stations have a responsibility to the public good BEFORE advertisers.
More labels. More taking sides. Not at all impressive.
Now I know why someone like Gene Burns whose libertarian views I often disagreed with, but who invariably was fair and thought-provoking failed to gain a national foothold compared to right-wing punks such as Limbaugh or Hannity.
It's a complicated world, lived in shades of grey, and there's a vast amount of information to absorb, sift through, think through, figure out, and develop conclusions about. Talk radio on both sides, and their tv counterparts, typically reduce their fields of focus, and view life and espouse views that are limited to black and white. And, let's face it, reverting to the sandbox by choosing enemies, and loudly saying clever, snide, snippy things about your enemies, is fun. By contrast, reasoned, substantive debate can be boring. So this is all understandable, but it's also at best a huge waste of time and at worst the sort of thing that appeals to our basest instincts and substitutes for the more difficult serious conversations that need to be had. Our country is in terrible shape the economy is a disaster, the infrastructure is crumbling, we're bogged down in two wars, etc etc and too many of us seem to be interested only in calling each other names. It's like attributing the current financial crisis to "greed" it doesn't move anything forward, it doesn't really explain anything, in fact it gets in the way of figuring out all the different factors that led us to where we are now, yet it takes up a huge amount of the public airwaves. Surely we can be smarter and more thoughtful and more capable and more independently minded than we have been in truth, it's not a high bar.
Many years ago, I used to listen to Limbaugh. He used to actually be funny. More ha-ha than deranged. No kidding. At least once an hour, as I remember, he used to proclaim "It's only radio, folks. It's just entertainment. That's all."
Things changed and Rush started taking himself much too seriously. When big money shows up that tends to happen. Consequently, Limbaugh became a totally transparent shill for the GOP. I guess he reached his level of incompetence.
The problem with these comments is that people are lumping talk radio together. All hosts are not created equal. Take national. Laura Ingraham is respectable and articulates a conservative logical argument very well, but Michael Savage frequently crosses the line of good taste and gives conservatives a very bad name.
And locally Mark Belling will sometimes break with the GOP party and seems to have far more of an independent mind, whereas Charlie Sykes frequently comes across as a too-slick, sleazy panderer to the establishment and a hypocrite in so many corners of his life. He is far more of a sycophant to those in power - and the WPRI and Bradley Foundation and state GOP axis. Follow the money. You really have to analyze them one by one to be fair. All liberal newspaper columnists are not alike, either. All conservative talk show hosts are not alike.
some liberal blogger should start tracking how much of his material sykes rips off from Malkin and Drudge
Everyone sucks ***** I m the ***** maters
"I first got into journalism because I thought I could make a difference. "
There's your problem right there.
Journalists are supposed to report FACTS, not "make a difference" as liberals are bent on doing.
No wonder he rails at Talk Radio. It is mainly OPINION, which, of course can make a difference. This must really gall the author as he obviously chose the wrong career.
I don't hear Sykes often but I do listen to his afternoon counterpart at WISN, Mark Belling, on a fairly regular basis. It's been entertaining the last few weeks to hear Belling squeal like a little girl at the prospect that the Republicans would lose the election.
One thing I'm struck by is the way Belling refers to ordinary folks who don't share his ideological worldview. He was discussing entitlements the other day, which is a serious issue, and referred to Social Security recipients as "bloodsuckers." On other occasions he's likened people who receive gov't services to drug addicts. Just what does Belling think old people should do without Social Security, sleep under bridges and pick food out of garbage cans? Or just kill themselves?
I wonder if there is something really unhinged about Belling that he would say things like this? Like all ideologues and fanatics, he seems to love his dogma more than people.
These talk-show people speak for a large minority of people, but they're just that, a minority. When the Republicans start taking them too seriously and letting them determine the party platform, they will lose, big time, and that's what happened the last couple of election cycles.
I'm a talk radio refugee, too. The other little secret that rarely gets mentioned is that, while conservative talk may dominate RADIO ratings, the "numbers" pale when put against the population as a whole.
For example, Joe the Right Wing Talker may get a 25 share, but only a 5 rating. That means a a quarter of all listeners may be tuning to him, but only 5 percent of the general population. In my day, we thought Rush's 10 ratings were phenomenal (and they were), but it still meant that 90 percent of the population wasn't listening.
Bill O'Reilly bragged on his radio show the other day that if someone did an interview with him, 12 million people would see itbetween TV and the internet. Even if we stipulate his inflated numbers, that leaves only 288 million Americans to go.
Catch what I'm saying?
This is why Limbaugh could campaign non-stop against Perot in '92 and the guy still pulled 18 percent of the vote. It's why he couldn't stop Clinton, couldn't stop 2006, couldn't stop McCain, couldn't stop Obama.
Smart people, in and out of media, know this bunch represents a vocal group, but a SMALL one.
posted by Jim Smith on 11.13.2008 2:39:24 PM
There shouldn't be a "Fairness Doctrine"...why would we want some Ministry of Information evaluating if so-and-so was fair or not on his talk radio show.
posted by Cicero on 11.13.2008 3:02:43 PM
Dan just one cog in the machine trying to get us all ready to accept the fairness doctrine.
posted by Erner on 11.13.2008 10:17:25 PM
If there is to be a Fairness Doctrine it should apply to newspapers and tv also.
posted by TerryN on 11.14.2008 9:51:38 AM
You're either for government censorship (fairness doctrine) or you're against it.
posted by steve on 11.14.2008 11:56:01 AM
Why is it that the Fairness Doctrine isn't applied to television or newspapers?
posted by steve on 11.14.2008 3:58:01 PM
The only way that the dems can "seize the airwaves" will be to pass the Fairness Doctrine.
posted by Judi on 11.14.2008 10:05:53 PM
This is just Dan's pitiful attempt to bring in the "Fairness Doctrine" because they can't get anyone to listen to propoganda like Air America.
.::Clarification on the Fairness Doctrine::.
The Fairness Doctrine would not apply to newspapers because those are owned by private individuals or corporations. It used to apply only to the AIRWAVES (radio or television) because those are owned by the people of the these united states, not by any individual or corporation.
"The FCC took the view, in 1949, that station licensees were "public trustees," and as such had an obligation to afford reasonable opportunity for discussion of contrasting points of view on controversial issues of public importance. The Commission later held that stations were also OBLIGATED TO ACTIVELY SEEK OUT ISSUES OF IMPORTANCE TO THEIR COMMUNITY AND AIR PROGRAMMING THAT ADDRESSED THOSE ISSUES. With the deregulation sweep of the Reagan Administration during the 1980s, the Commission dissolved the fairness doctrine."
There was nothing in the Fairness Doctrine that would have infringed on anyone's (or any talk show host's) right to voice their opinion on the radio or on television. It required that opposing points of view be given equal airtime since the airwaves belong to all the citizens in the country, not just the licensees of a station.
However, there is no push by the Democrats, liberals, the Green Party or Libertarians (especially not them) to reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine. It seems that it is another meme designed to convince the GOP base that they will once again be victimized.
I'm sorry, but judging by the reactions for the last eight years, Election Day, and the comments on this forum, conservatives come off as the biggest crybaby whiners. They want war, but they never want to fight it themselves. They hate lies, but lie about their leaders' faults and lie about anyone who disagrees with them. They are quick to criticize, but can't handle criticism. They hate handouts and socialism, unless it's for them, but the funniest thing is how they wish to deny anyone the right to protest, yet whine and cry when they feel their rights are being violated.
You may start your childish insults and retorts now, since you have no defense for this...
actually, I'm not sorry. And right-wing talk radio is filled with uneducated, cowardly, bigots.
Change is here. Life sucks. Buy a helmet...boo hoo hoo...
Reagan was POSITIVE. That's what drew people, in addition to his message. Talk radio forgets that. They impart the same conservative ideology but with negative, angry packaging. They have forgotten Reagan's lesson, even as they cite him endlessly.
Isome,
Well, there are several issues with your information that is not sort of double sided. Take WTMJ for example, it is owned by the same corporation as the Journal Sentinel, but suddenly under different rules of reporting.
I am not too sure what things would be covered and how far it would go. Take a sports talk show in Green Bay in November, would they have to have on a person talking about the New Orlean Saints and how the Saints will beat the Packers? After all, that would be in line with your point of a radio station to be "OBLIGATED TO ACTIVELY SEEK OUT ISSUES OF IMPORTANCE TO THEIR COMMUNITY AND AIR PROGRAMMING THAT ADDRESSED THOSE ISSUES." OK, not fair or likely, but how about the same sports talk show talking about a proposal to use tax payer money to expand a stadium? Or is sports radio not of importance to their community?
The real question always boils down to one thing, "WHO DECIDES?" Which not only means who decides what gets heard equally but when. Not all issues only have two sides, what about those issues that are highly complex, like the economy? That could have many sides, dozens or hundreds. Could any radio station handle that?
As for talk radio, like WTMJ, they also have weekend programming, which is terrible with things like car talk, gardening, etc. I guess there might be just as many opinions out there on those topics, will that be affected.
How about this point, if that radio station has their content online, will the fairness doctrine affect the Internet? What happens if or when a guy like Rush goes to the internet exclusively? There will be many people affected by that, from that station that loses popular programming (ratings like his are hard to come by), hence less ad revenue, and so one.
Imagine if there was a protest, someone showing a certain side of an issue, and the cops pulled them off the street and allowed an opposing side to take their place. This is exactly the affect of the Fairness Doctrine. One's Constitutional Right to protest or free speech would be infringed on, just like pulling a point of view off the air to get another side.
In the end, trying to control only talk radio is a joke, it is tough to define the issues that will be covered, it poorly assumes there are only a few possible solutions,sides,etc that can be covered, it will be monitored by who knows, and closely infringes on a trampling of the First Amendment.
As for this article, who cares? Seriously an admittedly (right wing) biased show suddenly must put Air America on? I guess is that is the only way Randi Rhodes can get on the radio anymore...
Dan should get out more. One can surely host a show in the way he describes, but the idea that is what "all" hosts do is bunk. Dan obviously has his own issues and biases as well.
It is fitting that in an Orwellian age a major source of discourse is the equivalent of the daily two minutes' hate in "1984."
Alex wrote:
"I like how WTMJ responded with an email stating that 'neither the station nor our hosts were offered a chance to comment on the claims made by the author.'
After all, WTMJ, with the strongest AM in the state, an FM and TV, as well as its parent publishing company, doesn't have ANY forum to get its point across! (LOL)
Poor WTMJ is an opressed vicitmjust like the rich right wingers their talk shows appeal to.
Good for you Dan.
Ask WTMJ management about Charlie and Jeff and the Milwaukee Police Dept.
That was a rather sad, intense saga.
With, as Jeff used to say, King Arthur.
Many interesting comments in here, only a few are spot on rather than opinion.
I had some interesting experiences while living in Asia 20 plus years ago. Listening to Voice of America, Radio Moscow, BBC and the Armed Forces Radio Television Service
I heard the news presented in different ways. I readily saw how media could manipulate and understood what Edward Bernays meant by the "Engineering of Consent". Look him up if you're interested, you'll learn how women were convinced to smoke cigarettes.
Since then I have been an advocate of taking some domestic and more international news sources. Anyone listening (as I was) to the BBC on March 2nd 2003 would have known that Mr. Bush was lying about Iraq and that there was no need to invade. No mention of UN activities in Baghdad in any US media. CNN is not the same as CNN International.
Diversify your news sources people ! Try the BBC, CBC, Radio Australia or New Zealand. livestation.com allows you to watching numerous streaming TV stations around the globe.
Pura Vida
As a talk show host, I was almost amazed to read Dan's "analysis" of radio talk shows whose political beliefs differ from his.
Two things:
(1) Dan fails to realize and understand that it's a SHOW, not a dedicated effort to change someone's opinion. People are listening for entertainment, not enlightenment, whether they're listening to conservative or liberal talkers. And about callers on the air? There's a lot that goes on at properly-run shows when it comes to deciding who does and who does not get on the air. It is not about "anywho who calls gets on the air," not is it about "only people who agree with the host get on the air. Dan, you really didn't do your homework before writing your diatribe.
(2) I shuddered when I read your first sentence: "I first got into journalism because I thought I could make a difference." Maybe I'm too old-school by todays so-called standards but I've always through that journalism was all about trying to report news (or any story clearly not labeled as commentary or opinion) as fairly and accurately as possible. Seem that "making a difference" is really activism in reporting, leading to biased rather than fair reporting.
GW
GW - after reading through this mass of mostly BS, you stole my thunder. GW's comments are exactly on track, "making a difference" is the mantra of the "true believer" type liberal. It doesn't matter what the facts are, it matters how they fit into the liberals frame of reference, and how they can then package the story to influence the public in the desired way.
Talking about whiners, this guy didn't say anything until he left the station, then whined it up big time to make himself look noble. If I wanted to listen to liberal bias coming at me non-stop, I can pick up the paper, turn on the TV or cable news, or read a magazine. If I want to be entertained and listen to points of view more in kind with my thinking, the only place is talk radio. Maybe liberals can take that free speech away with a new "fairness" doctrine, so their point of view is the only one out there (since the doctrine never applied to newspapers, TV, or cable).
Amen! It's about time somebody from the inside reports the abuses many of us see in conservative talk radio in Milwaukee. Sykes, Wagner and Belling are just wannabe Rush Limbaughs, instilling fear and rage in all their listeners. Stop making yourselves the victims and stop perpetuating fear. Americans won't continue eating the crap you're feeding us. Many choose to listen to the "liberal media" because it's the truth and we refuse to buy your "facts" backed with religious reasoning. And now, since Obama won, all we'll hear for the next four years are lies and "facts" skewed to their right-wing agenda. I'll get my entertainment from somewhere else, thank you very much, not talk shows that are skewed and derogatory.
"And now, since Obama won, all we'll hear for the next four years are lies and "facts" skewed to their right-wing agenda"
Wrong. Now that Obama won, ratings for conservative talk will only get better. Watching his presidency will be like watching a circus side-show and my conservative talk-show hosts get to be the ring leaders. God bless free speech.
I can't get over some of the folks here claiming to be a radio host, in sales, in the biz somehow whatever so they KNOW. Some of those posts aren't even coherent, for example this one from "a":
"Having worked in radio for years, a lot of what he says is true. I've seen it from both sides. Talk show hosts will simply callers who are getting the upper hand too.
I must say though that as a news directors what are you thinking running running results of a big athletic contest before it airs. That's dumb, dumb, dumb especially if you don't warn people of a coming spoiler.
Sour grapes for getting blow out? That's what it sounds like to me."
If you really are a "news directors", a, I suggest you sober up before posting. Then, you might consider taking an elementary English class. You know, learn sentence structure or something.
Such posts are nothing but blithering idiocy. If your opinion is worth so much more than everyone else here, then IDENTIFY YOURSELF. Otherwise, you're worse than those who criticize Shelley for waiting to speak up. Your opinion is invalid and a waste of everyone's time.
Skip the stupid ones, folks!
I can't get over some of the folks here claiming to be a radio host, in sales, in the biz somehow whatever so they KNOW. Some of those posts aren't even coherent, for example this one from "a":
"Having worked in radio for years, a lot of what he says is true. I've seen it from both sides. Talk show hosts will simply callers who are getting the upper hand too.
I must say though that as a news directors what are you thinking running running results of a big athletic contest before it airs. That's dumb, dumb, dumb especially if you don't warn people of a coming spoiler.
Sour grapes for getting blow out? That's what it sounds like to me."
If you really are a "news directors", a, I suggest you sober up before posting. Then, you might consider taking an elementary English class. You know, learn sentence structure or something.
Such posts are nothing but blithering idiocy. If your opinion is worth so much more than everyone else here, then IDENTIFY YOURSELF. Otherwise, you're worse than those who criticize Shelley for waiting to speak up. Your opinion is invalid and a waste of everyone's time.
Skip the stupid ones, folks!
Wisconsin Public Radio should be grateful for people like Charlie. After listening to about ten minutes of his constant liberal bashing and whining one day last summer, I called WPR the following day to double my yearly contribution.
Isome made one key error in his or her analysis of the Fairness Doctrine. The doctrine, as it worked when I worked under it, never required EQUAL TIME, only REASONABLE ACCESS.
Equal time applied only to candidates for office and even then, only within a prescribed window before an election.
Broadcast stations (and if you don't get the difference between a newspaper and an over-the-air radio station, you shouldn't be in this discussion) WERE obliged to allow rebuttal time and to reach out to community representatives for input on programming. A station which ignored the community was in danger of sanctions, but these were generally threats which kept stations honest.
Those of us of a certain age will remember when TV news directors and general managers did editorials. Most concluded with some variation of the tagline, "We welcome opposing points of view from responsible individuals and organizations." THAT was the Fairness Doctrine, NOT FCC guys with stopwatches.
www.democracynow.org
www.alternativeradio.org
www.fair.org
Good article, but too left leaning. These are neuro-linguistic programming techniques. Also, FOX News is pro-business which is why Rupert Murdoch forms the bulk of media companies it's part of the battle between business and government for control over the will and money of the people. Before mass commercialization it was government that drove what was said and what people thought in the interest of nationalism. It just works out that pro-business people tend to be conservative. This is well documented in the creation and maintenance of mass culture. Read Propaganda by Edward Bernays, or better yet watch the documentary series Century of the Self (and all others) by Adam Curtis.
I love this fairness doctrine propaganda. Its a perfect example of generating a persecution issue. Wing Nut radio speaks to the converted and is a channel to disseminate spin. Who cares? I think you guys lost the election because you weren't conservative enough. You guys really need to dig in on those values issues and nominate a real republican next time around.
Gee, the ad hominem attacks are just amazing, especially from those who really didn't read the whole article. If you get past the perceived sour grapes, you see an accurate picture of what the talk radio biz is all about. Talking heads like Sykes, Limbaugh, Hannity, and whatever liberal talkers you want to name are in the business strictly for their own personal advancement. They will do whatever it takes to move the needle because that's what pays the bills. They do not, I repeat DO NOT, give a rat's whistle about the listeners opinions they are merely tools to affirm that what the host is talking about is keeping that needle pegged. The problem that Mr. Shelley had with that was that this kind of rigged discourse was having an actual effect on the conduct of public policy. Mr. Shelley knew (and I believe acknowledged as much) that it was all entertainment, but when he realized that public policy was actually effected by the nonsense, his conscience got the better of him and he packed it in.
So, for those commenters who thought he was some kind sniveling liberal making a case for the fairness doctrine, you've missed the point by a country mile. And for those who believed the wraps were taken off the vast conservative propaganda machine, you missed the point by just as much. This was an indictment of the medium, not the message.
Voice your opinions on the Fairness Doctrine and media fairness or bias in general at: www.MediaFairness.com
Sounds to me like WTMJ (in its reply) is wants a Fairness Doctrine for print media. They said so above: "Neither the station nor our hosts were offered a chance to comment on the claims made by the author."
I once worked at WTMJ, and have been doing talk radio for twenty years. What is being said here is spot on. What talk radio has become is nothing but hosts who water carry for one side or the other. You used to have some of that at one time, but talk radio was more about putting on a show than trying to get someone elected. For my money Sykes and Belling are run of the mill, and in Sykes case he only does as well as he does because of the signal he's on.
I think I can sum up the relative popularity of conservative and liberal talk radio as follows:
Conservative talk radio is an endless stream of complete and utter wankery, which is why it's so popular.
Liberal talk radio is an endless stream of complete and utter wankery, which is why it's so unpopular.
Granted the liberal hosts are usually better-informed, but not too many people on the left like being told what to think. Conservatives, on the other hand, have themselves convinced they're living in a fishbowl and need any form of cognitive dissonance they can get to be secure. (Don't even start on libertarians. The phrase "reductio ad absurdum" was invented for them.)
Mr. Shelley should have gone into social work. You should go into broadcast journalism because you are a nosy person and want to inform the public. If you want to make a difference, choose social work or politics. The owners of WTMJ also made a mistake promoting the news director to assistant program director and including him in the preparation of talk shows. At talk stations, the newsroom and programming department should operate separately; just like a newspaper's editorial department and newsroom should be comprised of different people. Keep in mind talk show hosts are hired because they are articulate, entertaining and most importantly because they have strong opinions.
And to further illustrate Mr. Shelley's point the Republicans in this thread are all on cue with their current talking point du jour, The Fairness Doctrine.
Strange though... considering their misguided belief that the entire media is supposedly all liberal, wouldn't that mean the fairness doctrine would help them?
Oh and it wouldn't apply to shows of other topics... interesting way to muddy the waters of that argument. Let's extrapolate that nonsense a little, "if Sesame Street talks about the number 2, would the number 3 get equal time?".
How dumb.
Rp
Great article. As someone who's also worked in the business, I know well that angry man radio is nothing more than a giant, cynical joke on its listeners. And if you're one of those that take Charlie and co. as a serious "voice in the know", then the joke's on you. I'm not surprised to hear Charlie's listners write vicious letter disconnected from reality- a GOP Capitol staffer once told me he hated to get calls from Milwaukee because he knew those people had been fed what to say by Charlie, and those people were the most unreasonable and clueless.
The only way to stop it to constantly marginalize these fools- you know, kinda like how the red-and-blue county map of Wisconsin shows how removed Washington, Waukesha, and Ozaukee County are from the reality of all other Wisconsinites? If UW-Madison really had some guts, they'd hit WMC...I mean, WTMJ in the pocketbook by yanking all Badger network coverage off the station- they get second shrift behind every other team the station has, so why not go somewhere you're wanted and respected?
But I'll have to wait another 10 years, as Charlie's demographic grows past 54 years old (no one worthwhile under 40 falls for his cynical game), and then watch them freak. It'll be fun.
I love the point of how when the right wingnuts dont agree and cant submit a valid rebuttal, they just blame it on a liberal media basis. Honestly guys, that is getting old...
Sykes is a nobody who makes a living creating hatred- plain and simple fact. He gets people worked up over lies and carefully planted "facts".
The funniest part of all is he runs a program called "Standing up for Whats Right" and the guy committed adultery on his wife and abandoned his children. That doesn't seem "right" to me.
So Rush et al are "entertainment"? That's like a bedtime story, right? Like the one my dad used to me tell about my bedroom floor being a huge trapdoor over a pit that barely could hold a monster with a gaping maw lined with 10,000 teeth?
There's a difference between entertainment and telling lies to play on fears, especially if they have enormous political consequences.
Yes, liberals are truthful, patriotic Americans that believe in vigorous debate and fair play. Let's look at an example of this, Obama's Senate seat up for sale to the highest bidder? Of course, Obama knew nothing of this....nothing about the racist Wright, nothing about Resko, nothing about bomber Ayers, gee, this president-elect knows nothing about anything. This is the Democratic Party we love to hate. The nice thing is libs have no one to blame when things go from bad to awful, and in 2010 and 2012 there will be change again. I have no doubt Obama and the libs will run the country into the ground just like Carter and Clinton. Libs are egotistical, self-rightous, self-centered whiners who I honestly hate. Yes, I said it, I hate libs!!!!
The culture of corruption isn't leaving Washington, it's coming all the way from Chicago. But in the interest of the fairness doctrine, I will give Obama a chance....I will give him the same fair chance and support that you libs have Bush when he took office!
Just a wee bit bitter, Luke?
Do we HAVE to roll out all the corrupt Rethugs in jail (and the ones who aren't, starting at 1600 Pennsy) just to counter your rant? Is there enough space here?
Move along, nothing to see here.
Dan, Dan, Dan...Okay, you don't like Charlie nor do you like talk radio. No matter if I listen Charlie, Jeff, Mark, Rush or Sean..they say something to me..Truth, common sense. The appeal to me because they are logical. They question the same things I question. They have values like mine. They are not afraid to call like it is.. They are not afraid speak out on basic moral values.
I read your whining article and wonder why you ever went to work for a talk radio station. Your article has no meat..just a bunch of crap trying to explain Charlie and the culture of talk radio. Too bad you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Dave..a logical man. Milwaukee
Who are these people and what are they selling?
I love the victim response letter from the radio station. Priceless!
Talk radio speaks to me in logical terms!! your article is full of lies... Further more I do not think of myself as a victim nor am I scared; in fact, listening to talk radio gives me hope :)
Camy in sunny California